This is long but it must be said. . . . .
We hold all health testing in our files. Picking up your puppy will give you the opportunity to ask to see these health clearances. Utilizing the OFFA and specialists to clear our dogs of any health issues helps us to determine what dogs should be used for our program. It is true that any health testing a breeder performs, is just a momentary snapshot of the dog’s health. The other breeders who use line bred or inbred dogs that hold pedigrees that appear in their dogs lines anywhere from 5-10 generations back repeatedly and have chosen to breed relatives to relatives has essentially bred dogs that will show a propensity towards heart illness, eyes issues, cancer, LP, and physical abnormalities that are a hall mark of line bred & inbred dogs.
Any dog that holds "Certain" Pedigrees that illustrated illness in predecessors multiple times is ensuring that their puppies will be more likely to develop a problem either immediately or over time. NO HEALTH TEST CAN SHOW YOU WHAT GENETICS ARE IN THE DOG. Even the Bouvier health foundation has not been able to unravel the mystery of illnesses and the Bouvier despite all their efforts! The Health Foundation has unable to unlock those secrets while conducting Health foundation studies at Graduate Vet schools across the Nation. The solution is NOT to line breed these dogs to win in the show ring! It is simply not ethical to line breed to maintain the phenotype of a sick line of dogs. A well-known breeder in Illinois said, “She would be willing to use a dog that had produced heart issues,” if it gave her winners. Another breeder was reported by a buyer in California to have bred the same sire and dam two years in succession knowing that the puppies of the first litter (not just one but multiple puppies) came down with glaucoma. Her second litter did the same thing and the buyers dogs went blind in a matter of a week in the first year of life. The other puppies had the same outcome. This is the mindset of a Breeder who desires to win at all costs to the Breed. OR worse to sell you a puppy at all costs. Either way there is much to learn in terms of who breeds what and why they do so.
To further ad the claims breeders make on AKC Marketplace, Good Dog or any other sales site, are not vetted. The sites can't possibly check them for validity or truth so dont believe everything you read! We have years of research that we keep that shows the history of dogs and the breeders who breed them. We have realized through hours of research that the person looking is easily fooled. While the breeder looking for a dog to use can easily see the lies, it is hard for you to see the lies.
Show breeder things to watch for:
- Many boast on their website of show wins. Note many breeders take multiple dogs to a show that no one attends. Therefore the only dogs they are competing against are their Own dogs. . . .and they get points to win championships. This is called a kenel major. There is more than one breeder that we can certainly name that does this to brag about championships! All one needs to do is look up the show superintendent that the person uses or serviced the dog show the breeder attended to see if they had competition. If not and they took all their own dogs, then this action and outcome is certainly not something to boast about.
- There should be a wide range of areas that dogs can excell in besides the show ring. Illustration of this should be paramount to the buyer when viewing the website.
- Many show breeders use professional handlers to get championships on their dogs if they do not utilize kennel majors. While some dogs may be very nice, some may have never finished under an owner handler because they are not the best representation of the breed, yet a professional handler can finish a dog (put a championship on the dog) easily. So anyone who consistently uses professionals is only interested in the championship, not the quality of time spent with the dog, nor the triumphant feeling a owner handler feels when doing it themselves.
- Look very hard at the dogs displayed, look for tiny heads, small body structures. This is a sign of inbreeding. Over time the extensive use of certain lines causes physical abnormalities in humans and in dogs. This practice also can double up on genes that carry illness.
- If only show wins are illustrated on the breeder's site, steer clear this may be line bred dogs, do your homework!
- Is this breeder a breeder of merit, does this breeder have an extensive application process, how many clubs are they a member of? Do they have a registered kennel? what sort of presence and commitment besides showing do they seem to have to the breed itself?
- Do you see this breeder dogs in back yard breeders kennels? If so this breeder wants to sell to support their show habit!
- Does this breeder answer your emails, calls or communication easily? Are they welcoming or do they appear put off by your questions or need for clarification. Do they seem confused and disoriented by your call? Red flags for certain.
- Note show breeders keep the best for themselves, and rarely give you a show dog. If they say they do, it is often a sales gimmick. If the breeder is not keeping any, that is a sign that they have enough dogs and a good sign that they do not hoard or keep dogs from each litter to show with a professional handler. If the comment is "I was going to show this dog but you can have it". . . .think again!
- If the breeder says we only breed infrequently we only breed for ourselves when we want somethign to show, this substantiates what the previous warning says. Additionally many breeders have no clue what their dogs will produce and actually keep two dogs to see what what will happen when they breed two dogs. A good breeder has a great idea of what their dogs will produce and breeds at least once a year or more to produce quality dogs.
- A breeder should never breed back to back with a Bouvier unless the previous litter was extremely small. A 7-12 puppy litter will tax the female both physically and mentally. This practice is not responsible, steer clear of this practice and the breeders who do this.
- Beware of the breeder who only has a Facebook presence; beware of their money exchange practices of only taking pay pal or cash.
- Beware the breeder who slams another breeder openly with ease. Run! call that breeder and see what they are like. . . . look for the signes listed here.
- Beware the breeder who has professional handler ties and is selling dogs as this means that the championships may not be as wholesome as the owner handler that did it all themselves
- Not to slam Professional Handlers, as they are good at what they do, but in all our champions we have NEVER put our dogs out with a handler. NO one loves your dog more than you. This separation has taken its tole on the dogs and unless you have an extremely close relationship with the handler, it is not advisable. We have personal stories collected of all sorts of Negative handler dog incidents that are far too frequent than anyone cares to admit.
- Beware the breeder who issues warnings to a buyer based on the color of dogs, IE temperament, health or coats, structure or any other factor that could make a dog unpopular. This breeder is ill informed and should be avoided. This goes for breeders being disrespectful to fawn breeders and fawn breeders being disrespectful to dark breeders. There are so many wives tales and innacurate informational comments made that are meant to scare you the buyer . . . .you need to separate yourself from this negativity.
COLOR IS NOT A DETERMINATION OF ANY THINGS EXCEPT GENETICS OF COAT COLOR. Breeding fawn to fawn is like two blue eyed, blonde haired people having kids. Nothing negative will come of this pairing despite the wives tales and rumors you hear
- Consequently a fawn is not a better temperamental dog either. Nor or they better health. All genetics are determined by their predecessors not by color!
- The lack of or the presence of a tail or ears does not determine a dogs demeanor as well do not fall prey to any of these wives tales or rumors. Do not take the fact that the Europeans say any of these statements as a factor for truth! The Europeans have started many of these wives tales and rumors and they grew in the other parts of the world to a gross proportional size!
- Do not fall prey to what colors of bouvier are “accepted” there are many variations of the breed in color from cream, to dark cream to yellow, brownish yellow, orange, to red and then brindle grey, grey, black. The one variation that is NOT desirable is a dog with dark on top and light legs. NO matter the color black, fawn or brindle, over all consistency in color is what is expected.
NO one can insure total health in puppies. NO one has a crystal ball. However the key is if you have an issue you stop and change the combination. Any more indications of problems and you take that animal out of the breeding program ASAP. If you know that there is a high rate of inheritance in a line YOU Don’t use it.
On the flip side of the coin you will find that back yard breeders, who change their names, have not been breeding long are just buying dogs to breed and make money off of you. They rarely if ever health test, do not know the breed standard and breed dogs that are temperamentally bad, or have structure like a sway back mule. These breeders have all the cards stacked against them in terms of knowledge based breeding. They tell the breeders they buy from they will show the dog and that way they obtain a full registration from the AKC, however they never intend to show, they intend to breed. The breeders that sell these back yard type breeders know nothing about the dogs they produce. Many times they say things like
- This is my first litter.
- This is my only litter.
- My dogs are excellent family dogs and we wanted to breed them
- they are home raised in my kitchen or house
- They are loved and cared for by our kids
- I bred them because they are such nice dogs
- They do not have a website
- They don’t do ears
- They only have a Facebook presence
- Beware the dogs that are not registered
- Beware the dogs that are mixed Bouv doodle
- Are more than willing to ship
- Have websites or kennel names with “love” in it
- Consistently put cute kids with the pics to sell
- sell dogs from 500 to 2500.00 dollars the later number is to make you think they have a quality dog. Generally poor quality runs about from 900 to 2000.
- Do not make you fill out an application
- Take pay pal, money orders or cash
- Allow you to pick out your puppy
- Are not members of any club or have not ever been in the National club for the breed they sell
- Have multiple breeds (this is difficult to know and do well in all breeds)
- Have championships boasted but they are 4H or the person in the photo is not dressed up, most shows that dogs are competing in that area of substance the person who is handling the dog dresses well. Nice slacks and nice shirts well kept.
- Claim it is an ops litter (dogs accidentally got together) While we will say it has not happened to us yet, many breeders use this as an excuse to breed and don’t’ want the criticism that goes with that particular breeding.
- Expresses that shipping is the best!
- I am a breeder of Merit (but does not say AKC) this is meant to fool you
- I have no illness in my lines
- My dogs live to be very old
- Even claiming all dogs they use have CHIC number (Canine Health Indentification Codes) which say they were health checked in all areas suggested by the American Bouvier des Flandres club. A CHIC number does not mean a dog passed the tests with healthy outcomes it means they WERE tested. you may type in the dogs AKC number on the OFA website to type in that number in advanced search and it will tell you what the dogs were tested for if the breeder claims to use the site to post. There is currently quite a few breeders making these claims but the information is NOT there. Yes sadly breeders do not always tell the truth.
Many poor breeders could not show the dogs they have in the AKC ring unless they used a professional handler to help obtain points and even the handler would have difficulty getting the dog a championship based on the incredibly poor structure the dog illustrates.
Google the breeder’s personal name and see if a red flag appears. A few breeders who have changed their kennel names come to mind. Some breeders who appear may have shown in an attempt to justify their breeding or validate themselves yet they still have some questionable breeding practices and they are hard to discern from a viable source for a puppy.
Many of these backyard breeders only breed to make money off of you the desperate or unsuspecting buyer. Many have not been breeding the amount of years they claim and in many cases they have changed their names to hide their past. We have watched and kept track of these name changes because it is important for us to know what dogs are coming from what lines.
NEVER and I mean never buy from a puppy distributor that houses multiple breeds. There is a house in Missouri that gets their Bouviers from some very back yard situations and it sells puppies to the public. Never mind you can't see the conditions the puppy was raised in, you can't be certain who are what the dog comes from. NO indication of any history there. Run like the wind if you see a dog from a situaiton like this. Many breeders that are good can suggest another breeder if they know of a good litter that will be born or is born. Do not get desparate and buy the first dog you find. This is a huge mistake. . . .many make and regret later.
When looking for a dog, look for a club member in an all-breed club, look for a dog that does not display the same dogs in their line multiple times check the website:
www.jenarae.com
Be sure to go back 5-10 generations looking for dogs that appear more than twice or three times and if you want to be educated call us. This is a pedigree website that does not have all the dogs on it but you can see if the back yard breeder has dogs under their name as far back as they claim. However if you see blank pedigrees or you do not see dogs in their names or NO champions at all (should have at least 5-10 champions) You better start to ask some serious questions of this person.
In addition posting your health outcomes does not mean that the dog has no genetic trash that they are handing on to the next generation. Nor does it mean that the dog in print presently is not holding illness from the same clearances that are appearing in print. We have never seen a breeder change a status of Healthy and free of problems dog status to "this dog has heart, eye, elbows, hips or thyroid issues"! Their status' never changes and so the OFA database is not a good source for health history based on accuracy and history for the breed.
Know too that there are five health tests that a Bouvier should undergo to see if they are a good candidate for breeding, heart, eyes, hips, elbows, and thyroid.
A gonioscopy (often considered by the uneducated breeder as the 6th star of health) is not an indicator of good eye health in the Bouvier Breed specifically. It works on other breeds but not the Bouvier. WHY? The dogs that have the genetic marker for eye issues also have the genetic markers for heart and other issues. These dogs are drop dead beautiful in body structure. The underpinnings of this issue started in the early foundation dogs of the Bouvier, continued to the 1950s surfaced again in the early 1970s and then again in the early 1990s and still continue today. The breeders were made aware of the litter that was produced in the early 1990s and yet they decided to use the OFA health exams as PROOF OF A DOG THAT IS NOT SICK AND TRY TO CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT THE DOG DOES NOT CARRY HEALTH ISSUES GENETICALLY AS WELL! This could not be further from the true. In fact many times health issues lie dormant and surface with devastating effects on the buyer or breeder after the puppy grows or the breeder has produced a few dogs or possibly never at all till the next generation. While the breeders continue to breed this genetic problem the genes seem to change structural location and they are more difficult to identify. That has made the Genetics studies next to impossible. While other breeds cease using the dogs that have history of issues and the all cooperate to try to end the health problems. Bouvier breeders can't seem to let those two lines go dormant for studies. They win in the ring and have even in some cases changed and set the breed standard to a bulky less agile dog that is not the original style and quality that was considered being THE representative of the Breed the Bouvier. Founding fathers would be both shocked and possibly horrified at the transformation of the breed to these thick, dogs who are not as agile as their predecessors.
Using OFA protocol insures that the test given is valid and good for the time it was given. However on the form a breeder fills out it asks for permission to post failing outcomes. If the person opts out of this they essentially will have a dog that may post only a couple of the health exams that are listed. If they have posted many of their dogs health outcomes and you see many more dogs that have all their health outcomes with this breeders prefix (Kennel name) you can assume that the dog you are looking at that is a specific health outcome did not pass this test. You also need to look at siblings and parents to see what testing those animals passed as well. This lack of posting is as much a sign as the posting of health exams. Note again that a dog who passed all their tests does not mean that they have since not come down with the illness that they were originally cleared of.
Many years ago as this breeder was learning the ins and outs of breeding from mentors, A litter was bred with a well-known champion. The mentors finally admitted through a set of circumstances that this line had copious amounts of health issues, heart, cataracts and glaucoma to be exact. Our puppies were health tested and yes they had heart disease. Those dogs were sold as pets with the knowledge of what was learned about the pups possibilities. All were spayed or neutered and the line never used again! However one of the dogs went to a northern Illinois breeder who health tested their animal and they said yes that the dog had a heart murmur. Given the nature of the other dog tested murmur, our specialist said that the dog in the other home should be spayed and never used. Again as explained earlier, that dog was used as a foundation for this breeders line and we were very disappointed in their choice given that we offered to get them another dog that did not hold those genetic problems. They refused. We also told them to get a Doppler to clear the dog and they never did. The chest got big and the murmur was hidden in yet another auscultation. The dog got a passing health test and a subsequent CHIC number and so our statement that dogs on the OFA can be ill, or will come down with a problem and never have their status change is TRUE and accurate. The data base is neither reliable for historical health history nor immediate.
You at this point are asking. . . “Why do you health check?” If you are a responsible breeder and want to maintain your reputation, Be able to sleep at night and have a following of repeat buyers who are happy, YOU HEALTH TEST! YOU CLEAR ALL DOGS PRIOR TO BREEDING AND YOU DON’T USE DOGS OUT OF PEDIGREES WITH A HIGH PROPENSITY FOR ILLNESS!!!! It is our quest to health test for us to make good decisions and for our sanity in this endeavor of breeding lovely dogs. We test every dog we intend to use ourselves so we know what the outcome is for a good decision. We have five to six generations of outcomes and countless dogs that our buyers have reported to be sick from Glaucoma, heart disease, and cataracts. We can trace each new case reported to us back to the lines we will not use. Our nearly 42 years of being with and around Bouviers has taught us many things about the breed. Our mentors were priceless in the foundations they set for us. It has been a whirlwind of knowledge. Genotype is everything with phenotype something we have developed relying on genotype sound foundations. Our stance is not held by many. In fact we may be the only breeder that holds true to our standards and will not waiver to win in the show ring.
If a breeder posts many of their health outcomes but leaves some blank that may mean that the dog did not pass that specific test omitted. A breeder can opt to not post a flunking outcome!
There is however a specialist in Missouri that inspects eyes and he demands you post if you use him. I would not fault a breeder for only having eye health posted from the retired U of Mo eye specialists. However this is not the case for any other physician.
WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A BREEDER:
1 Many years of breeding or time in the breed training, showing, and doing activity
2 Vast knowledge of History of the breed, illness, and pedigrees
3 Personal commitment to the breed
4 Extensive application process and interviews
5 Interest in you getting the puppy from the litter that is right for you.
6 Sceptisism in your purchase they question you extensively.
7 Knowlege of what they dogs have produced in the past
8 Evidence of their dogs being finished by owner handlers in the ring and the breeders committment to mentoring these buyers and new show handlers.
9 Quick response to your questions
10
Generations of dogs they have produced. . .evident and displayed
11 Look for champions in their dogs on jenarae, too many champions means a line bred dog and a sole interest in showing, a smattering means that the breeder has committment and can show, ask if they were finished with whom?
12 Knowledge of viruses and illness withint breeding and show sites
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Need to mentor and co own or own if you want to show or breed (no breeder should set you up to breed. You need to learn about the breed extensively before you consider breeding for you and for the breed.
13. Club affiliations? Kennel registered? Breeder of Merit? Any Registry of Merit dogs in their name? Evidence of happy buyers?
14. Website up to date? Any website at all?
15 Professional presentation by the breeder?
16 Direct NO beating about the bush attitude. Sugar coating answers to maintain that you buy is not the way to sell dogs. Many times a good breeder has to be blunt and honest to make a point. If not both you and your new puppy may not be as successful as you should be.
We can point you to our main website. We opened this site to fill a gap for buyers that are looking for puppies. We intended its URL would be easy to find. The AKC marketplace has changed their protocol for buyers to contact Breeders and have also sponsored through paid ads those breeders that are not the best representatives of the breed (IOO) everyone is entitled to an opinion. In addition Google has changed its protocols as well. Therefore this URL has captured a niche and we hope will help you find the dog of your dreams. Through communication with us we can send you to our large and very comprehensive site to review our track record and to see how much we care about this breed. Because many back yard breeders find that puppy sales seems to be a money making business. . .which it is, IF NOT done correctly, they prey on innocent buyers. The Bouvier has its fair share of these types, as do all breeds. Through education and careful homework you can avoid this pitfall and get a dog that will speak well for the breed, have few health issues that may shorten the dog’s life or end it prematurely and you will be delighted with the temperament and structure of your dog! Everyone deserves to have a dog that they value, is their best friend and they can be proud of. Dogs bred to take your money are a detriment to any breed.